The story continues as our intrepid host goes to his first property meet-up and unwittingly puts his trust in a Forex trader.
This episode also features expat Ivan Goh, a solicitor from London, who has a cautionary tale to tell about the dangers of buying off-plan new build developments in the UK.
Ivan also offers some tips on the conveyancing process.
Turn on your mind, relax and listen to the episode!
Rate, review and follow the show at www.expatpropertystory.com
Ivan Goh 00:00
I mean, obviously you know, a con man has never been a bad salesman, right. So, you might hear from salespeople, you have to take with a pinch of salt or you can trust to an extent, but I always check everything they say, rental yields, the price comparables, etc. I will always check
Expat Property-Guy 00:20
You're listening to Expat Property Story, a podcast in which I share my story to smooth the way for you to have your own Expat Property Story. Hello there, and welcome to episode three. If you're enjoying these episodes, I'd really appreciate it if you could leave a fair review on Apple podcasts to help build our expat property community or rate the show wherever you get your podcasts. As a quick recap of where we're at in terms of my Expat Property Story so far, it's 2017. And my wife and I have decided to surrender the majority of our pension plan and use the cash to build a property portfolio. I've educated myself via podcasts books and forums, and I've met up with Stuart Ball, a Hong Kong based UK expat investor, and one of the guests on Rob Dix as Property Geek podcast. Rob and Stuart were guests on episodes one and two respectively. So if you haven't listened to those episodes yet, you might want to go back and listen to them first. Through listening to The Property Podcast, also by Rob Dix, I discovered that there was actually a property Meetup group here in Hong Kong. The meetings took place on the first Wednesday of each month. Unfortunately, the first meeting I went to was in June 2017 and in summer, numbers tended to drop off. As a result, there were only four of us there. And to my disappointment, I felt like I knew more than the other three. Despite the fact that I'd only started learning about property myself just a couple of months previously. Not only were there only four of us, but one of them was a forex trader, just looking to pick up business. As I say, we had recently made the decision to cash in a large proportion of our pension plan to reinvest in property. So we had a significant sum of money, we were looking to transfer to the UK, this Forex guy convinced me that he could get me a better rate than the company I was using. So I took him at his word and held off transferring the money. Big mistake. A day or so later, he came back to me. And of course, his rate was not as good as that offered by my usual broker. This was around the time of the 2017 UK General Election. And as the day of the ballot drew ever closer, the pound was getting stronger and stronger. I finally ended up transferring the money the day before the election, fully expecting the significant conservative majority, only to find that Jeremy Corbyn Labour did much better than expected, and the pound weakened again. I ended up about 1000 pounds worse off than if I just transferred the money when I originally intended. The lesson I learned from this experience was just to go ahead and transfer money or cash in stocks and shares when you're ready. Too many times I've tried to wait for the right moment, waiting for a more favourable rate or price, only to find myself getting stressed out checking the rate every five minutes, and ultimately in a worse position by the time I pulled the trigger. But anyway, back to meetups. meetups are definitely a good place to meet other property investors and learn from them. You may be able to reach more people through social media, but there's no substitute for meeting people face to face. So both are good. The second time I went to the Hong Kong property meetup was an altogether better experience than the first, there were far more people attending with a much greater range of both property strategies and locations within the UK. It was on this occasion that I met today's guests who came to Hong Kong in August of 2013, working as a solicitor in the investment fund space, so he's no stranger to the world of investing, whether that stocks and shares cryptocurrency or indeed property, which is what we sat down to talk about, and he had a cautionary tale to tell about the dangers of buying off plan new build developments in the UK. His name is Ivan Goh. I asked Ivan how he got interested in property in the first place.
Ivan Goh 04:29
Well my mum has always harped on about how property is the best investment in the world and was always saying as early as she could, I should purchase a property. I purchased my first property in 2012 Without frankly giving too much thought into it. And it was certainly an investment at that time, but I hadn't done any calculations around it. It was just a case of.... I came into a bit of cash after leaving my law firm, pooled that with my brother and my mother and we put down a deposit for two bedroom flat in Putney in London, where we lived. And it worked out well. I wouldn't say I was a property kind of very, you know, it was an investment. My sister lived there actually for just under a year and paid me about half the market rent. I suddenly realised the pressures of paying a mortgage when you're out of pocket every month. But it was really after I went to, I think Malaysia for us long summer holiday, where I went to a seminar by which was held by a conference rather helped by Robert Kiyosaki
Expat Property-Guy 05:39
Rich Dad Poor Dad,
Ivan Goh 05:40
Rich Dad, Poor Dad guy. Correct. He spent about half an hour on stage, and drew that quadrangle. And it was just a revelation for me to think that you can, you can really borrow the bank's money. Interest is tax deductible. And it just seems like a virtuous circle in terms of investing. So that put me on the road towards property investing.
Expat Property-Guy 06:03
He then returned to London and educated himself on property. He bought a bunch of books registered on the property tribes forum, and found a few property podcast, before relocating to Hong Kong, in 2013. But it wasn't until he married his Korean girlfriend in 2016, that he returned to the idea of property.
Ivan Goh 06:24
When I got married, I thought to myself, we probably need to set ourselves up and financially. And so very quickly after marrying, as I purchased a couple more, two more properties off plan whilst in Hong Kong, both of which are in Liverpool, right? That would have been five years ago now.
Expat Property-Guy 06:44
2016? So how did you find them in the first place? What led you to this developer?
Ivan Goh 06:45
Expat Property-Guy 06:45
So how did you find them in the first place? What led you to this developer?
Ivan Goh 06:50
So this is this is probably a mistake. When I was looking to purchase a property, I just Googled online property investment, Liverpool, London, wherever Birmingham was looking all over the place, and found innumerable, just, you know, 30, 40 different agencies effectively selling off plan properties. And all of them had very exciting kind of language, or these great developments going on, or this these trends in the market
Expat Property-Guy 07:19
Ivan Goh 07:19
Buzz words, exactly. And I was, frankly, probably taken in by the excitement of it. So I signed myself up to lots of emails from receiving, you know, 20 emails a day about different properties. And you'd read oh, you know, the last couple left, this is a great opportunity, last chance to invest. I somewhat took it with a pinch of salt, but not entirely, and just jumped into a deal pretty quickly. And actually, it's laughable, almost embarrassing to say, I actually paid the agent $1,000 reservation fee, which went just for him. It didn't go towards the developer. So even though they get paid a significant amount of money by the developers to sell these off plan properties, generally to expats, I think, yeah, I actually paid the agent another grand ha ha
Expat Property-Guy 08:05
Did you not have to?
Ivan Goh 08:06
He told me, he told me that was that was just what they did. That was a last minute when we were he was taking down the details in order to create the reservation. Yeah, all right. He said, Oh, and there's a 1000 pound fee. And by that point, I was already in my mind committed, I want to buy this property , one grand's, okay. It's not going to change things materially
Expat Property-Guy 08:25
Ivan's intention was to mortgage both properties once he had completed, but he soon ran into difficulties with the second one.
Ivan Goh 08:32
I bought the first one just with cash. And the second one also, but there is an issue on that currently. And although the property's completed physically, I haven't actually completed on that legally.
Expat Property-Guy 08:42
So wow. So can you explain that?
Ivan Goh 08:45
So there, it was nothing there when I purchased it, it was it was a true off plan property. So I think it had been scheduled to complete in about two years, that time came and went, delays, etc. They blamed the weather, they blamed whatever it might be. And, I think it was partially financing, to be honest. And this is a mistake, I probably won't make again, the developer just delayed for years. And then I realised there's very little you can do at that point, I could ask for my money back, I have the option to ask for my money back. And I put down the majority of the purchase price down over time as the deposit you know, there's... I can request that money but at that point in time, I have no right to get that money back from him other than a contractual right, which I'd need as a lawyer, I know I need to enforce that. Looking at the way this company operates, they wouldn't be willing to pay that money back to me. I think they would just sit on it and just and just say yeah, okay, we'll pay you back. But we'll pay you back later. And I would just eventually have to go to court and claim that back. So from my perspective, I actually have a stronger position if I have a contractual right to complete, which if that company ever went bankrupt, the liquidators would actually just complete on the existing contracts to sell the properties. And so I actually I feel I have a better right to in just waiting for the legal completion to occur. I just had an email from my lawyer the other day, we might start to get a little bit more aggressive in pursuing this. They basically they've let out my property, which is ... well, I can't say my... almost my property. They they're collecting rent every month. And that must, I'm sure cover off whatever interest they're paying on the debt they've been using to complete it. So not a great experience. In the meantime, I guess I'm continuing to receive the upside and capital gain, because the purchase price is set. But yeah, there's no income. And it's a bit of a stress at the moment, I can say
Expat Property-Guy 10:35
But it's your right to buy it. They can't change that...
Ivan Goh 10:38
Oh, yeah. You'd expect the developer to sell you the property, that moment is complete. So they can pay down their debts in this case, they're not they're actually letting it out themselves, which is incredibly cheeky.
Expat Property-Guy 10:48
And do they have the right to do that?
Ivan Goh 10:50
Legally? I think so. Yeah, they should be completing, but they're already my recourse is to request my money back. But it's been so many years now. There's been a capital gain. And I don't even think they'll pay me the money back if I asked them to. And once I asked them to do that it's irrevocable. I can't say, well, actually, I'd like to complete later. So at this point in time, I'm just trying to push.
Expat Property-Guy 11:12
So why do you think that you're in a stronger position by not completing?
Ivan Goh 11:17
Because let's say in a liquidate if there were a liquidation of the company, and imagined, given, it's a bit dodgy, there could be. The liquidator, I'm told will ordinarily just honour all contracts, including, well, their main objectives is going to be to sell the assets of the developer, which will be the property assets. And since the contract is already there, that it should be sold to me, they will then just honour that, if I seek to request my money back, I just become a general creditor of the business just like any other trade creditor, I have no special right to be paid that above anybody else. And genuinely, if there is a liquidation, those guys that suffer, so I wouldn't let me know what they do they sell the property to somebody else at whatever price, and then whatever proceeds are left will then go to pay the general creditors, I would most likely end up getting a lot less than the deposit I put down.
Expat Property-Guy 12:07
Okay. So are you in touch with any of the other people who bought properties in that development at that time?
Ivan Goh 12:14
There has been a little grouping of aggrieved investors, not only into this particular property I purchased, but other properties developed by the same developer,
Expat Property-Guy 12:23
And are they still developing other properties?
Ivan Goh 12:25
As far as I know, yeah they are.
Expat Property-Guy 12:28
I guess we can't name them and shame them.
Ivan Goh 12:30
Well, yeah, maybe not quite yet. No, I may actually, you know, make this more public
Expat Property-Guy 12:35
And go into the public domain.
Ivan Goh 12:37
But not quite yet
Expat Property-Guy 12:38
Knowing what you know, now, would you have done that same deal?
Ivan Goh 12:40
Expat Property-Guy 12:41
What could you have done, do you think that would have prevented all of that happening?
Ivan Goh 12:47
You know what, I wouldn't purchase a property from a small developer. There was one small red flag. When I diligenced the business. It was just a comment in some odd website from a supplier who was very aggrieved he hadn't been paid. But other than that, there was nothing. The developer seemed to, you know, have several developments on the go and seemed to be relatively large in Liverpool and connected with the Liverpool council. So I thought, You know what, it seems a very good deal. But as you say, too good to be true. It was significantly better on paper than other properties out there. And I just, I just pulled the trigger.
Expat Property-Guy 13:25
Ivan's other Liverpool property, however, has been a success.
Ivan Goh 13:29
That's been entirely fine. Done exactly as expected. What are we looking at, I think it's around 700 pounds per month with a purchase price of around 135 or 130,000 pound purchase price. So it's not a great yield, but it's not a terrible one. And the good thing about that property is its slap bang in the centre of the city in a nice little road near the bars and clubs and all that kind of thing. So I just thought it would let out quite easily and it has,
Expat Property-Guy 13:58
Did you decide not to use a mortgage because it's Off Plan?
Ivan Goh 14:02
I suppose the reason is, with off plan properties, you never really know when you're going to complete. There could be delays, there could not be. So my idea was, I will actually just mortgage it after I've completed and that I can do that at my leisure. And well, the intention was, I will remortgage two properties in Liverpool at the same time, potentially also the one in London, so I could potentially get a better deal.
Expat Property-Guy 14:23
So what would you say is the greatest challenge for you as an expat property investor?
Ivan Goh 14:28
I think the distance, the distance. Assuming we were investing in the UK, you know, we're based in Hong Kong. It's just impossible, obviously, to go and view any property as in when it gets becomes available. Any good property often has many people on it immediately, before it even gets on to right move. So I think it's impossible to find those kinds of deals, then that's why I went down the offshore Off Plan route, going through the salesperson, I thought that's just a cost. I'll just have to bear. There's no other way around it and there are other ways There are people you can pay to search for properties. But I've had this problem of trust, I guess. Trusting other people I don't really know, with my money is something I guess I did with the Off Plan route. But yeah, maybe I've been burned by that. And so I'm a little bit shy, I guess. So in many ways, for me, I'm waiting to purchase property when I get back in the UK. So if I spend any significant time in the UK, I'll probably be looking to purchase, maybe through family members who are also looking to purchase or invest. I'll see if they can give me a hand.
Expat Property-Guy 15:35
So that you've got boots on the ground so to speak.
Ivan Goh 15:36
Yeah, yeah. People who I know and trust etc.
Expat Property-Guy 15:40
How do you think other expats go about finding their properties?
Ivan Goh 15:43
From what I can tell salespeople selling off plan properties just generally to UK expats abroad is big business. Other than that, I'm not too I mean, I'm aware that there are other routes, but I haven't really looked into them in any detail.
Expat Property-Guy 15:58
It's interesting that you talk about trust, I think that's the biggest factor for expat. Property-Guy because how do you trust somebody?
Ivan Goh 16:05
I think spending time with that person and getting to know them better. Is something that I think I would need to do. But it's not possible to do. If you're not there.
Expat Property-Guy 16:15
I was gonna say how can you spend time with people?
Ivan Goh 16:17
Exactly. And the salespeople that mean, obviously that, you know, a con man has never been a bad salesman, right. So you might hear from salespeople, you have to take with a pinch of salt, or you can trust to an extent, but I always check everything they say, rental yields, price comparables, etc, I will always check Yeah,
Expat Property-Guy 16:37
That's what they say, Trust but verify
Ivan Goh 16:39
Expat Property-Guy 16:39
What would you recommend to people to do in terms of due diligence... on I guess you have due diligence on the property, and on your property partner in the UK? Right, the person who's helping you the deal sourcer, or the project manager or whatever? What would you do? You invest not just in property, you invest in stocks and shares and cryptocurrencies do you?
Ivan Goh 16:39
I think you have to review the area really understand the market in that area. And only once you understand the market, can you really go to diligence properties. Because once you see a good deal, you should know it's a good deal immediately if you know that market. And so if I look back to my days when I was investing in the Putney property, although I wasn't looking at in a stricter mindset, as I probably would these days, I very much knew the area, right? I went on tons of viewings, probably about 50 viewings spoke to many, many estate agents, family members who lived in the area. And we knew the area inside out having lived there for years. So for us, it was there wasn't actually that much risk, in a sense, because we knew this was a good deal. We knew the rental demand. And we knew what let how easily we knew the price of could get just through living there for such a long time. And to me, I think that's kind of irreplaceable, you can. You can do as much research as you want, looking at Rightmove, looking at Google Maps, looking at whatever. But having that on the ground experience is just so useful, you know, to know that there's a train line behind this row of houses here to know that that area is a bit dodgy because there's a kebab shop there and kids tend to drink around the corner and nobody would want to live on that corner. Yeah, that kind of stuff is it's just kind of invaluable. I think. So maybe I've been you know, had a bad experience with the off plan property, but I'm quite confident that the next property investment I make will be something possibly closer to home in terms of an area that I know I know pretty well
Although Ivan dabbles in Cryptocurrency his long-term strategy still revolves around property.
Ivan Goh 18:36
Yeah, I do I I dabble here and there. So I have some money in stocks and shares, not a huge amount. The problem with stocks and shares is I just think, you know, as you can hear, and for many other people, and I'm no expert on this, the market has been going so well, for so many years. Can it really continue to keep on doing this well, for the next 10 years? Or am I better off trying to although people say you shouldn't time the market, wait for a big dip and then get in. So I think that the arguments in favour of ETFs are pretty strong. I work in the investment industry when I say that, but generally they are pretty strong. There are definitely very good investment managers who can definitely make you more than the market and more than an ETF can give you but there are many others who won't. And others that most Yeah, most, maybe most the many, many won't. And the problem is as a as your average investor, and I would consider myself an average investor when it comes to the stock market. How is anyone supposed to know which Portfolio Manager or which fund is going to do the best? It's very, very difficult to 100 people flipped a coin. Of course, there will always be somebody who's got 10 heads, right? That'd be somebody who's got 10 Tails. So if you have 100 managers, portfolio managers, there will always be some outperformers out there simply by virtue of chance. Are they just lucky or are they really genuinely very good at what they do? So, from what I've seen in my career, it's very difficult to beat the stock market on a consistent basis. I think there are probably other investments out there that are more attractive,
Expat Property-Guy 20:14
Like property, ha ha
Ivan Goh 20:16
Indeed, like like property, which, you know, is unique in the sense that if you look at a particular desirable area, with a river, buy it with parks, buy it with good schools buy it, that will always be desirable. Yeah. 1020 3040 50 years into the future. If those big factors are still there, and just purely through the virtue of inflation. You should make money.
Expat Property-Guy 20:38
Ivan also dabbles in cryptocurrency and is making a good profit from it. But his long term strategy still revolves around property.
Ivan Goh 20:47
I do think property is I think it's a safest investment. And it's something that, definitely when I am back in the UK, I will definitely be pursuing and for now being abroad and having been burnt on the off plan property purchase. I'm just pursuing a little bit some other opportunities right now. But having said that, if I had invested in property instead of other things for the last five years, I probably would have pretty so yeah, I mean, this, this is just my experience. And I learned as I go. I think the flip side of risk is reward. So risk, to me is risk without reward, whatever you're doing, has an attendant reward with it, which to my mind should outweigh the risk significantly for it to be worthwhile, because I'm a bit conservative, then effectively, that's a risk you should accept. I don't view risk in a bad way. I think risk is a good thing. If I look at the cryptocurrency investments I'm doing there is risk. There's a risk of 100% capital loss if one of the platforms goes down. But I've diligenced as best I can. I've reviewed and I've thought about people's incentives who are involved in that and it's acceptable risk. Risk is, it's just necessary in order to make excess returns. The same thing with property investing. I have been relatively conservative with the Putney property. I was relatively aggressive, I guess. in the Liverpool ones, investing off plan for something I've never seen with people like small developers, I didn't really know. And I got burnt there. But do I regret it? Yeah, of course. I regret it. But it's been a massive learning experience. I've learned a lot about how, how things how to stop things from going wrong in the future. So for me for risk, it's not a dirty word. It's not a bad word. It's something that I would embrace.
Expat Property-Guy 22:29
Okay. So you of course, if you are a solicitor right, I think a lot of people have had problems with the conveyancing process, you know, in buying a house. What tips would you give expat investors in the conveyancing process and dealing with solicitors and that sort of thing?
Ivan Goh 22:49
Well, I would say one thing is that it is in many ways a commoditized business doing conveyancing
Expat Property-Guy 22:56
How do you mean by commoditized?
Ivan Goh 22:59
Well, there are so many there are so many property transactions, there is a standard form contract that is used for these transactions. And there are standard searches and pre exchange checks that are done by solicitors. So you know, I would say the, the more fly by nights or the cheaper law firms may just engage somebody internally to do the conveyancing who is not appropriately qualified or experienced in order to give you that cheap price. Yeah, the downside. So you know, that obviously from the perspective of a non lawyer, they don't really know what's involved, they just want the lawyer to do the thing properly and get it done. But behind the scenes, I think you pay for what you get. So I wouldn't go for the cheapest conveyancer out there. Because my fear is that you will pay for what you get, and they will they will miss things. The other thing if you do you know, lawyers are always busy. That's the nature of the job.
Expat Property-Guy 23:53
Yeah, that was what I wanted to ask you. How should you push your solicitor?
Ivan Goh 23:58
I think you have to be very specific with your lawyer as to your desired timelines, and get up front with them what you expect in terms of level of service, and hear from them, you know, how busy are they who's going to be dealing on this project for you, and, and just build, build all those expectations in there. Because if those expectations are not met, you then have a higher ability to negotiate down the fee at the end of the day. Right. And you have to you know, the lawyers often do the work for whoever chases the hardest. So don't be afraid to give your lawyer a call or an email or nudge anyway, just to just to make sure that your project gets dealt with first. I mean, I'm somewhat guilty of that, and many others aren't. Because if you've got 15 competing projects, the person who's emailing you calling you daily and chasing you, is probably the one you're going to be incentivized to deal with first
Expat Property-Guy 24:53
The wheel that squeaks gets the oil.
Ivan Goh 24:55
Yes, exactly. Exactly.
Expat Property-Guy 24:57
Well, let me tell you a story that I think I told you before. I was mortgaging a property I'd bought with cash. And I'd elected to have dual representation where the same solicitor represents the lender and the applicant. And I think what happened was that I'd already provided certified ID and proof of address. And then the lender rejected it saying that the certifying solicitor had to be registered to practise in both Hong Kong and England and Wales. So to try and save some money. I said, Well, why don't I just send you a hard copy of my proof of address? They said, No, no, no, no to remove all doubt, it needs to be certified in Hong Kong. So they were effectively saying that a certified copy is more credible than the original document. So they will accept a copy from a solicitor saying that they've seen the original, but they won't accept the original.
Ivan Goh 25:48
Yeah, that's very odd. That's very odd.
Expat Property-Guy 25:52
Can you defend your profession on that one? Ha ha
Ivan Goh 25:56
I... I... no, I think that is very odd. I'm not sure why they've done that because certified copies are always used in place of the original, right, the original, as you say, is always best. I'm not sure why they would request.
Expat Property-Guy 26:12
Is there an element of covering themselves somehow or just, you know, the computer says no?
Ivan Goh 26:17
Yeah, I think it's the bureaucracy and internal policies, which may be governed in lieu of common sense in that instance.
Expat Property-Guy 26:30
So Ivan, in this part of the show, I like to ask my guests to take the Monopoly Challenge.
Ivan Goh 26:35
Oh, no. Okay.
Expat Property-Guy 26:36
Where, the object is to name as many squares on the Monopoly board as you can in just 30 seconds. If you repeat any squares, then that square will not count towards your final total. So Ivan, are you ready to take the monopoly challenge? Yes. Okay. Yvan, Your time starts now.
Ivan Goh 26:54
Okay. Go .Old Kent Road, Whitechapel Road, Angel Islington, Pentonville Road, Euston Road, Vine Street, Malborough, Pall Mall, Strand, Trafalgar Square, Piccadilly Circus. Leicester Square, Regent Street, Bond Street, Park Lane, Mayfair, Jail. Chance, Community Chest Fenchurch Street Station. Ha ha!
Expat Property-Guy 27:24
21 !That's fantastic. Amazing. Amazing. That is... you go straight to the top of the leader board I'm sure. Did you play Monopoly much as a kid?
Ivan Goh 27:36
Yeah, I loved Monopoly.
Expat Property-Guy 27:38
Do you have a particular strategy?
Ivan Goh 27:40
Buy as much as you can
Expat Property-Guy 27:41
Buy as much as you can?
Ivan Goh 27:42
Very simply buy as much as you can.
Expat Property-Guy 27:43
But does that not eat into your cash flow?
Ivan Goh 27:46
It does. It does, but don't buy those Electricity Works those the Water works. I don't think those are good buys. Okay, the railway stations? Railway stations not such good buys either. But the properties of the streets roads, they you can buy we can build hotels on them. Those are great. I think the Park Lane and Mayfair, that side of the board is probably a little bit overpriced. So you could go bankrupt whilst waiting for your big payday to purchase focus on so I think yeah, I think somewhere around the free parking is probably want to be in.
I should have mentioned that, did I mention Free Parking?
Expat Property-Guy 28:28
I don't think you did. I think you mentioned... You got jail, but you didn't get go to jail? Oh, no, not sure. One thing I ask all my guests to do as well as the Monopoly Challenge, of course, is to tell a joke. So have you prepared a joke for our listeners?
Ivan Goh 28:45
I spent about half a second preparing a joke.
Expat Property-Guy 28:49
Ivan Goh 28:50
Yes. Would you like to hear it?
Expat Property-Guy 28:52
Very much so.
Ivan Goh 28:53
Okay, so when I was young, I wanted to build a bridge, the longest bridge in the world. But then I realised somebody had already done it.
Expat Property-Guy 29:04
Ha ha. Okay, yeah. Thank you.
Ivan Goh 29:06
Yes. I hope you enjoyed that one. Yes.
Expat Property-Guy 29:09
Ivan, thank you so much for your time. It's been a pleasure having this chat on the podcast. And I'm sure I'll see you again in the near future.
Ivan Goh 29:16
Thank you for having me.
Expat Property-Guy 29:17
You're very welcome. That was Ivan Goh, a solicitor here in Hong Kong with some good advice about due diligence when dealing with property agents from afar. If you want to get in touch with Ivan, you can contact him via me at email@example.com If you want to tweet me it's @ExpatPropGuy. And to follow me on Instagram search for Expat_Property_Guy. Don't forget to subscribe to the show, so you don't miss an episode. In next week's episode, I'll be talking to a Hong Kong entrepreneur who not only invests in UK property himself, but also provides services for the increasing number of British Nationals Overseas or BNO passport holders who are looking to leave Hong Kong and resettle in the UK you've been listening to Expat Property Story.